What is the difference between the suction line and discharge line? Because your hand is in the 90's, the suction line should always feel cool. Discharge hoses take up less space than suction hoses, hence the name lay flat. However, you may visit "Cookie Settings" to provide a controlled consent. What is suction line and discharge line? You also have the option to opt-out of these cookies. So, in designing the suction-side pipework for your system, you must ensure that it exceeds the manufacturer's NPSH-R rating for the operating conditions. A suction hose is also called a return line or vapor line as it sends back the vapor that earlier came from the compressor. If the pump draws liquid from a sump at a lower elevation, provide a combined foot valve and strainer. This is done so as not to starve the pump and incur the risk of cavitation. Too small of diameter on suction piping. 1. This is why it is considered a refrigerator suction line: it is sucking in cold refrigerant gas. The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Other. Keeping the pump suction piping short ensures that the inlet pressure drop is as low as possible. However, a good quality discharge line hose may cost higher than a good suction line hose.if(typeof ez_ad_units != 'undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[300,600],'hosetips_com-large-mobile-banner-2','ezslot_9',109,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-hosetips_com-large-mobile-banner-2-0'); Yes, the suction line is bigger than the discharge line in the refrigeration system. The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Performance". The discharge side includes compressor and condenser, and the suction side includes expansion valve and evaporator. Suction piping should be at least one size larger than the suction flange at the pump. The cookie is set by GDPR cookie consent to record the user consent for the cookies in the category "Functional". The suction line connects the evaporator to the compressor, the discharge line connects the compressor to the condenser, and the liquid line connects the condenser to the expansion device. The ASHRAE Handbook (2006) reports different tables to design the liquid lines as a function of the system capacity, refrigerant and tube material, for fixed temperature change of 0.02 K m-1in the case of liquid line and for liquid velocity of 0.5 m s-1 for the receiver to condenser connection lines. It is a capital mistake to theorise before one has data. Why is the suction pipe diameter greater than or equal to the discharge pipe diameter when design pumping system? Due to discharge lines being larger than the discharge nozzle, eccentric reducers are required in the line.. Reducers should be as close as possible to the nozzle; with top suction-top discharge pumps, care must be taken to ensure that the flats on eccentric reducers are orientated so that the lines do not foul each other.. A pressure gauge should be located in the discharge line, upstream of . The line losses were designed for approx 2 psig pressure drop. Suction lines should consider the following: Route suction lines as directly as possible. For different condensation temperature the table capacities must be multiplied by the correction factors listed, which depend on the selected refrigerant. We also use third-party cookies that help us analyze and understand how you use this website. Flooded Suction: Liquid flows to pump inlet from an elevated source by means of gravity. Dynamic Suction Head: Used when calculating the static suction head minus friction head and velocity head. appreciable error. A short 350mm diameter pipeline serves as the pumps suction line with insignificant head loss. No matter what the operating mode, the suction line will always lead to the compressor. The cookies is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Necessary". AS TIME passes, this insulation breaks down, and you can see gaps and . The article provided all the information regarding the discharge vs suction line hose. ), From "BigInch's Extremely simple theory of everything.". Step 2 : Study the pump data sheet and collect the similar (capacity / head) pump dimensions / nozzle position. The larger line typically carries a cool gas and is insulated. The discharge line is normally one size larger than the discharge nozzle. The refrigerant discharge hose transfer is high pressure. A valve designed for flow control should be installed in the discharge. This website uses cookies to improve your experience while you navigate through the website. The centrifugal action of the impeller accelerates the liquid to a high velocity, transferring mechanical (rotational) energy to the liquid. What determines the discharge and suction pressure of the refrigeration system? This is where freon exits the compressor as a liquid. tutorial3.htm). The headloss from fluid flow can be excessive if the pipes are too small. The Pump Suction line is one (or more)sizes larger than the pump suction nozzle. This second part describes the design procedure of the suction and discharge lines according to what suggested by ASHRAE Handbook (2006). The suction line diameter is normally either 3/4, 7/8 or 1 1/8 inches, it depends on the size (and efficiency) of the air conditioning system or heat pump. 1. The following examples permit to clarify the design procedure. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. However, the design philosophy differs slightly between the suction and discharge lines: The suction pipe of a centrifugal pump is not necessarily a larger bore (diameter) than the discharge pipe. Your calculated value is termed the NPSH-Available (NPSH-A). Functional cookies help to perform certain functionalities like sharing the content of the website on social media platforms, collect feedbacks, and other third-party features. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. Our office will close only on December 26, unit coolers, air coolers, remote condensers, dry coolers, gas coolers, Refrigerant line sizing Part II: suction and discharge lines, CHILLVENTA ONLINE: what to expect from 13 to 15 October, COILS 8.0 BUILD 200728 CO2 CALCULATION IMPROVEMENTS, Public key infrastructure for better IT security, Investment in renewable energy: successes and failures, Internet Exchange Points: increasingly important online security tools, Industrial IoT and the future of company sustainability, Digital Markets Act: Europe moves against big tech. Heres our favorite suction line: UAC has been quite popular in offering high-quality automotive parts and components, and this Suction Line Hose is no different. These cookies ensure basic functionalities and security features of the website, anonymously. if(typeof ez_ad_units != 'undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[300,250],'hosetips_com-box-3','ezslot_6',101,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-hosetips_com-box-3-0');Does your cars A/C hose need replacement? Is the discharge line size the same as the nozzle size? Functional cookies help to perform certain functionalities like sharing the content of the website on social media platforms, collect feedbacks, and other third-party features. When it is not working anymore, you can easily replace it. But opting out of some of these cookies may affect your browsing experience. As nouns the difference between suction and discharge. It is the low-pressure side that has a lower temperature. Join your peers on the Internet's largest technical engineering professional community.It's easy to join and it's free. It will not be wrapped in insulation and will be warm to the touch. . Also most all your vertical turbine centrifugal pumps are with the same size column (suction) as the discharge. What is the difference between suction and discharge? Suction pipe design Suction pipe should be equal to pump nozzle diameter or preferably one size larger, NEVER smaller If pipe reducers are installed, then see Fig. The design procedure can be summarized as follows: first of all, for a given cooling capacity and refrigerant, the previous Tables permit to find out the recommended pipe diameter (for 40 C of condensation temperature); then the total equivalent length of tube must be estimated, it is the sum of the straight pipe length and the equivalent length of fittings, which can be obtained from Table similar to that reported in The expansion device is typically located at the end of the liquid line, at the inlet to the evaporator. Just as Quality wrote. c). Steps to do Pump Piping. 3. Metal 3D printing has rapidly emerged as a key technology in modern design and manufacturing, so its critical educational institutions include it in their curricula to avoid leaving students at a disadvantage as they enter the workforce. Additionally, you should have straight pipe going into the inlet, preferably with a length of ten times the inlet size of the pump. Diagnosis from Pump Operation Suction recirculation will produce the previously mentioned loud crackling noise in and around the suction of the pump . The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Performance". The first one is the discharge temperature measured on the compressor discharge line. Straight Length Requirement. We also use third-party cookies that help us analyze and understand how you use this website. It was a more of a generic question as my mananger had stumped me on the question of why cant the discharge nozzle and suction nozzle be the same? Sunny, evaporating temperature in the evaporator. Next time on a start up do a little test and you will find oil in the suction line (before start up). Here the gas refrigerant enters and then gets out in the liquid form. And now the refrigerant inhales the heat from the cabin and fans out the cold air. If you are pumping a long distance, 3-5 ft/sec pipe velocity is appropriate on the pump discharge. It is cool to the touch on an air conditioning system and cold to the touch in refrigeration. The suction pressure is elevated because the discharge gases have leaked through the rings. On our website, you will find documentation about our Engineering Software Products, Tutorials, Case Studies written in collaboration with our longstanding customers', and Articles about Thermodynamics, Engineering, and HVAC Market Insights. c). And the suction line hoses are the larger ones. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. How do I calculate pump suction pipe size? In other words the compressor can't provide the needed refrigerant to the . Which line is bigger liquid or suction? Whatever the reason is, a comparison between discharge vs suction line hose can answer all of your questions. If this value is lower than 1 K, the line is sized; otherwise, a little bit bigger tube should be selected. The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Other. Thanks. References This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. Discharge The correction factor for discharge lines is 1.117; thus, the previous 139.76 kW associated to 42 mm OD tube becomes 156.11 kW that with an equivalent length of Le=27 m implies a temperature drop of 0.39 K (acceptable). It must also have high enough velocity to carry oil back, yet have a minimum pressure drop. We use cookies on our website to give you the most relevant experience by remembering your preferences and repeat visits. When your HVAC system is new, this line is insulated air-tight with 3/4 insulation. 3- Suction line pressure loss? - This is function of the system piping not the compressor however past tests have shown that there is less than .5 psig between the LPR and the compressor suction. These cookies track visitors across websites and collect information to provide customized ads. In fact, NPSH-R is defined as the suction-side pressure at which cavitation reduces the discharge pressure by 3%. What happens when a solid as it turns into a liquid? A typical . b). If a receiver is used to control the refrigerant charge fluctuation during the operation, this components should be fed with saturated liquid from the condenser and, then, it should feed the liquid to the subcooler to achieve the requested subcooling level. What are various methods available for deploying a Windows application? The discharge temperature should be less than 225 F. Discharge superheat temperature. Pump suction vessel is designed at F.V condition but pump is not designed for F.V. The results of having worn rings within your compressor appear similar to having leaky valves. This. Then take the suction pressure and convert it to temperature on a temperature/pressure chart. 2 Is the suction line bigger than the discharge line? The discharge pipe may be larger than the suction pipe. Suction pressure is a term used to describe the pressure of a refrigerant gas at the intake point of a refrigerator or air conditioner compressor. What is suction and discharge head? 0. The next table illustrates an example of the sizing table for R134a, copper tube; the third column is devoted to the liquid lines, the other refers to suction and discharge lines. This is commonly referred to as the suction line, but it is also called the return line or vapor line. Discharge Line - YouTube 0:00 / 6:39 Intro Liquid Line VS. 1" Discharge Hoses 1 1/2" Discharge Hoses 2" Discharge Hoses . Keeping the suction side of your piping as short as you can. b). As you increase the compression ratio, your volumetric efficiency decreases. Liquid Line VS. Preventing Flooding On a Walk-In Call Symptoms of Overcharge Diagnosing and Replacing a Run Capacitor Symptoms of Low Refrigerant Charge Preventing, Finding & Repairing Refrigerant Leaks Proper Use of Manometers for HVAC Technicians UV light and Petri Dish Demo Tool Talk Live - Probes, Bags, Hand Tools, Power Tools & More They transfer refrigerant vapor and lubricant, which need plenty of space to flow properly. The larger line typically carries a cool gas and is insulated. Each type, however, has its own operating limits, which are: Duplex pumps: the cranks are at 90 and the pump can be run at a maximum of 70 spm. The data listed in tables refer to a refrigerating system which operates at 40 C of condensation temperature without subcooling, but they can be applied up to 5 K of subcooling without introducing any Then it travels to the suction line or the low side. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. The larger line typically carries a cool gas and is insulated. Already a Member? Learn more about the difference between R-22 and R-410A refrigerants Pipe sizes are based on the amount of refrigerant flowing through them and, for that reason, preliminary pipe size selections can be made based on the nominal size of the units compressor (or in multiple compressor units based on the nominal compressor tonnage of each circuit). The line diameter is decided by pressure drop requirement, due to the NPSH requirement for centrifugal pump, that implies a smaller pressure drop limit for the pump suction line; but as the fluid at discharge line is with higher pressure, it allows a higher pressure drop in discharge line. Line sets come in multiple lengths and are designed to be cut to fit your exact need. V= Velocity in pump suction side (velocity in suction pipe is generally considered in range from 06 to 1.5m/s. Why is the suction line one size smaller than discharge? The result is higher than normal suction pressure. It does not store any personal data. In terms of diameter, discharge pipe diameter should normally match the discharge flange on the pump but can be larger to reduce friction losses and decrease system pressure. However, you may visit "Cookie Settings" to provide a controlled consent. On the suction side, the diameter can be the same size, but often engineers select a size or two bigger, thus requiring an eccentric reducer. Since pumps accelerate the fluid between inlet and outlet, the outlet size has a higher velocity, but flowrate is the same, giving a smaller area anddiameter. These cookies help provide information on metrics the number of visitors, bounce rate, traffic source, etc. The key difference between a discharge and a suction line hose is their connection system. The pump is a 2"X1"-10" which is 2" suction side flange, 1" on the discharge and 9" impeller. The suction block valve should be line size. Why are refrigerant lines different sizes? The discharge line is normally one size larger than the discharge nozzle. Why Suction one size larger..this was his question and he left me looking like a deer looking in a headlight..I am novice when it comes to pumps..thanks everybody that replied. as you said what goes in only comes out. What is suction line and discharge line? 1 Why is the suction line bigger than the discharge line on a pump? Analytical cookies are used to understand how visitors interact with the website. It is our favorite because it offers excellent quality in this price range. Suction From Figure 2, 191.84 kW capacity in 54 mm OD suction line results in a 0.04 K m-1. And then, a suction hose transfers low-pressure refrigerant. Then, determine the lines sizes if the condensation temperature becomes 50 C. Discover how this hybrid manufacturing process enables on-demand mold fabrication to quickly produce small batches of thermoplastic parts. What is the difference between suction line and discharge line? The smaller uninsulated line typically carries a warm liquid. The tables suggested by ASHRAE Handbook (2006) for halocarbon refrigerants are based on 0.02 K/m for the discharge lines and 0.04 K/m for the suction lines. Why pump discharge is smaller than suction? The cookies is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Necessary". Resolution: Internal to an air conditioner suction lines temps are about (40F (4.4C) and cause condensation when ambient air is introduced that is below the dewpoint of the coil/suction lines. Low temp suction lines and all liquid lines must be insulated in all Nature's Cooling and Enviroguard applications! 8 Is the suction in a turbine the same as the discharge? What qualifies you as a Vermont resident? Total Head - The total pressure difference between the inlet and outlet of a pump in operation. Suction lines are generally designed to keep friction losses to a minimum. This is partly due to mechanical efficiency and partly to get a justifiably higher pressure. A discharge hose connects between the compressor and condenser. 4 Why is the suction pipe diameter greater than or equal to the discharge pipe diameter when design pumping system? A discharge line hose connects the compressor outlet to the condenser inlet. What problems are caused by undersized suction lines? These cookies ensure basic functionalities and security features of the website, anonymously. The liquid solenoid valve is de-energized and the circuit defrost solenoid valve is energized, opening and supplying discharge vapour to the evaporator inlet, which initiates defrosting. The two lines next to the normal suction line can switch between discharge & suction. Its high-quality construction with such a low price makes it our favorite. A discharge line is a section of piping where the pressure is higher than atmospheric pressure (e. g. Pump system). Solid-core suction-line filter driers are designed for cleanup and are installed in a system suction line. What experience do you need to become a teacher? The suction line connects the evaporator to the compressor, the discharge line connects the compressor to the condenser, and the liquid line connects the condenser to the expansion device. Which is larger suction flange or pipe size? Lines should be sized as follows: Its a low-pressure, lower-side suction hose. Already a member? Suction lines are generally designed to keep friction losses to a minimum. Discharge Head - The outlet pressure of a pump in operation. Why is the suction line bigger than the discharge line on a pump? Note: The usual total pressure drop used to size suction lines is a DP that would impose no more than a 2F temperature penalty. Above, we have provided a brief table showing the differences between a discharge and a suction line hose. A = Cross-section area of Pipe or (A=/4 * D2). The suction pipe of a centrifugal pump is not necessarily a larger bore (diameter) than the discharge pipe. Click Here to join Eng-Tips and talk with other members! The rule of thumb for suction piping is least one size larger than the suction flange. The discharge nozzle size of a pump is sized to relate to the line velocity of the flow for which the pump is designed. The purpose of the lines is to keep the losses to a minimum. Is the suction line bigger than the discharge line? Discharge Line HVAC School 255K subscribers Subscribe 70K views 2 years ago HVAC Fundamentals Bryan gives a quick. They can be made from different materials and take up less space. The pump SUCTION line size is typically kept one standard size larger than the pump DISHARGE line in order to avoid suction NPSH and suction problems. Why discharge of centrifugal pump is largest? The expansion device is typically located at the end of the liquid line, at the inlet to the evaporator. The UAC Discharge Line Hose is a high-pressure line you can get as a replacement for the one that is faulty. Answer (1 of 5): Standard axial suction, radial discharge. How many babies did Elizabeth of York have? A Showdown of the Key Differences Between Pipe and Tube. 1 Why is the suction line bigger than the discharge line on a pump? Analytical cookies are used to understand how visitors interact with the website. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Your email address will not be published. For the suction side, you can also use the same size pipe as the pump suction connection, often one size bigger is used (ref. Therefore, the temperature drop per unit of length for suction lines is greater than that of discharge ones. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. However in small sizes such as this one, both connections are the same. Registered R.E.A. Which is typically larger on the compressor the suction or the discharge line? Piping layout is designed poorly or too little NPSH. Available in 10', 15', and 20'. Vapour under high pressure require less space and when the pressure drops the vapour expand and occupy larger space. Compared to the finer screens of filters, they are . The cookie is set by the GDPR Cookie Consent plugin and is used to store whether or not user has consented to the use of cookies. Single and Double Mill jacketed hoses can be found here. Why is pump discharge smaller than suction pipe? You should not feel heat if the coil is clean. Attach a thermometer designed to take pipe temperature to the suction line. The suction line consists of Lt=15 m of straight tube with 8 long radius elbows while the discharge line consists of 15 m with 10 standard elbows. We provide cutting-edge technologies such as Heat Exchanger Design Software and Selection Software to HVAC&R manufacturers worldwide. The most critical line is the suction line. Usually, an A/C system has four major components: evaporator, condenser, compressor, and expansion valve. The compressor power will have a peak and then fall again. Cause:. Note: Obstructions include valves, elbows, "tees", and etc. For any refrigeration cycle/AC unit there are two operating pressures: suction pressure and discharging pressure, high and low settings for each pressure line determined by the manufacturer will stop the unit. Also, what would happen if they both were the same size? You also have the option to opt-out of these cookies. Advertisement cookies are used to provide visitors with relevant ads and marketing campaigns. Login. The pump suction line size is 3" sch 40 while the discharge line size is 2" Sch 40. Suction strainers, when used, must have a net free area of at least three times the suction pipe area. They can be the same size. These cookies will be stored in your browser only with your consent. Case 1: Insufficient compressor (leaking discharge valve). Suction and discharge piping need to be what they need to be and can connect to whatever inlet and outlet size of the pump happens to be, but if you look at the. The reason is not directly related to NPSH, although a larger suction diameter would obviously help. 4 Why discharge of centrifugal pump is largest? Evaporator outlet to the compressor inlet, Extensive engineering ensures high precision, Premium-quality design to meet OEM specifications. Atlanta Rubber & Hydraulic's discharge hoses can be found here. For example, a 1-inch inlet should have 10 inches of straight pipe entering the inlet. In addition vapour in suction pipe has high density in discharge lower. And the suction line hose links the evaporator outlet to the compressor inlet. Examine how the principles of DfAM upend many of the long-standing rules around manufacturability - allowing engineers and designers to place a parts function at the center of their design considerations. c). As a rough indication, the bypass size could be 15 to 20 percent of the main line size. Learn methods and guidelines for using stereolithography (SLA) 3D printed molds in the injection molding process to lower costs and lead time. Intro refrigerant lines: suction and liquid 56,930 views Feb 26, 2014 342 Dislike Share Save Randall Manteufel 26.7K subscribers Discuss refrigerant suction line and liquid line,. Pump suction strainers are installed onto the suction inlet or piping of a pump to protect the system from taking in solid foreign matter from the fluid reservoir. Figure 1: Suction, Discharge, and Liquid Line Capacities in Kilowatts for R134a (Single- or High-Stage Applications). Why one rather than 'atleast one'? Both types of high-pressure mud pumps are being utilized on rigs for circulating the drilling fluid around. Reasons such as off-topic, duplicates, flames, illegal, vulgar, or students posting their homework. The expansion device is typically located at the end of the liquid line, at the inlet to the evaporator. Atlanta Rubber & Hydraulics is a solutions . Both of them transfer refrigerant through the connections. Horizontal suction lines should slope 1/2" per 10' toward the KEEP SUCTION PIPING AS SHORT AS POSSIBLE Include a straight run pipe length equal to 5 to 10 times the pipe diameter between the pump inlet and any obstruction in the suction line. Please let us know here why this post is inappropriate. Their overall usage and function are quite different from each other. The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Analytics". Suction and discharge recirculation can be very damaging to pump operation and should be avoided for the continuous operation of pumps of significant energy level or pressure rise per stage. This has been tested to prevent leaking quite efficiently. But you can not differentiate between the discharge line and suction line hoses? We hope now you can select the correct line hose replacement for your vehicle. If the condensation temperature becomes 50 C, the values listed in Figures 1 and 2 must be corrected using the correction factors listed in the table. If you have an air conditioner, you have a suction line-that's the "cold" copper line that runs between the compressor and the evaporator, and it carries the cool refrigerant back to the compressor to be turned back into liquid. ANSI/HI 9.8 American National Standard for Pump . Undersized piping results in high internal refrigerant velocities and good oil return but high line per metre pressure drops and resultant loss in system capacity; as well as compressor overheating due to compressor cooling losses and compressor failures. The discharge pipe is 1,200m in length made of steel schedule 40 pipe. It uses premium-grade materials to ensure long-lasting performance. Promoting, selling, recruiting, coursework and thesis posting is forbidden. Advertisement cookies are used to provide visitors with relevant ads and marketing campaigns. Pipe sizing is a balancing act between cost and friction loss. We also have common assemblies. Share The line size should roughly agree with the velocity at the inlet and outlet of the pump at BEP conditions. The second temperature is the saturation temperature of the working fluid in the system. Friction Head - The loss in pressure or energy due to frictional losses in flow. We have received your request and will respond promptly. b). Articles, Coffee Break, Events, News, News & Events, Articles, Events, HVAC Industry Insights, News, News & Events. Sorry this was not pertaining to any particular job hence the lack of information. The following values of correction factors are relative to the tables reported in Figures 1 and 2. You may also require a suction line hose to fix the A/C in your car. Answer: The terms suction and discharge are the terms refer to hydraulics. The key difference between a discharge and a suction line hose is their connection system. Figure 3. as a subcooler; this implies that part of the condenser will be flooded and will operate as a receiver. The cost of discharge lines and suction line hoses are almost the same. The discharge line is normally one size larger than the discharge nozzle. A correct balance between the suction and discharge pressure ensures that the system is healthy and functioning correctly. The liquid line should not be hot or warm for that matter. 6 Why are refrigerant lines different sizes? Is the suction in a turbine the same as the discharge? PIPE DIAMETER ON SUCTION SIDE SHOULD BE EQUAL OR ONE SIZE LARGER THAN PUMP INLET. The discharge pipe should be the full size of the compressor outlet or larger, and it should run directly to the aftercooler if one is used. Are there any instances where the size of the lines are the same? We will vary the pipe diameter to demonstrate how a change in the pipe diameter affects the flow rate through the system. To calculate the discharge head, we determine the total head from the characteristic curve and subtract that value from the pressure head at the suction, this gives the pressure head at the discharge which we then convert to pressure. Leaking has been one of the common problems for A/C hoses. The suction line connects the evaporator to the compressor, the discharge line connects the compressor to the condenser, and the liquid line connects the condenser to the expansion device. Suction line first because you are in a vacuum and the vacuum will suck a moderate amount of oil out of the compressor into the new line set. Generally speaking, the discharge pipe size can be the same size as the pump discharge connection, you can see if this is reasonable by calculating the friction loss of the whole system. Dynamic Discharge Head: Used when calculating static discharge head, friction head plus velocity head into one computation. Thus, from Figure 3, a 50 mm long radius elbow has a equivalent length of Lf=1.0 m. The total equivalent length can be easily calculated: using the previous equation, it is possible to estimate the temperature drop in the suction line: Recompute for the next smaller, 42 mm OD tube, the equivalent length for the elbows becomes Lf=0.8 m and the total equivalent length Le=21.4 m, then the temperature drop becomes 1.45 K, which is slightly higher than 1K. A smaller suction line the same pipe size as the discharge line would result in more pressure drop in the suction line and reduce the amount of head available to the suction side of the pump. Good explanation that one looking from the opposite side. The smaller uninsulated line typically carries a warm liquid. When the refrigerant gets into the evaporator, the pressure gets down. For example, a 3 Ton AC would need a inch suction line when the distance is 25 feet or less, but if it's over 25 feet, you would likely need a 7/8 or 1 1/8 suction line to get your full efficiency and capacity. Required fields are marked *. These cookies help provide information on metrics the number of visitors, bounce rate, traffic source, etc. A discharge line hose connects the compressor outlet to the condenser inlet. 9 Why pump discharge is smaller than suction? The suction line regulator is closed by de-energizing its pilot solenoid coil, preventing any high-pressure vapour from entering the suction header. - The balance of the evaporator coils require higher suction pressures. Their functions depend on how the reversing valve routes the refrigerants. Copyright 1998-2023 engineering.com, Inc. All rights reserved.Unauthorized reproduction or linking forbidden without expressed written permission. Since the line is almost always larger than the pump nozzle, the suction valve must be placed before the reducer. In the future you should also use the Search (located at the top of the page) to see if the question has already been asked. The discharge line is normally one size larger than the discharge nozzle. Registration on or use of this site constitutes acceptance of our Privacy Policy. What happens if the suction line is not insulated? Other uncategorized cookies are those that are being analyzed and have not been classified into a category as yet. The high side, or discharge line, will be the line connected to the compressor from the bottom or lower position. Discharge Line = Line Between the Compressor and the Condenser The discharge line should contain high-temperature, high-pressure superheated vapor. 7 Which is larger suction flange or pipe size? In hydraulics if the the liquid has to be lifted or pumped to the usage area the hydraulic pump will be used . UNILAB S.R.L. This will prevent turbulence. drop is smaller. A suction line accumulator prevents compressor damage from a sudden surge of liquid refrigerant and oil that could enter the compressor from the suction line. number: IT01334900287 Net Assets Euro 3.175.406,00 Heres our favorite pick you can try: This Discharge Line Hose from UAC is an excellent replacement for any cars refrigeration system. Why pump discharge is smaller than suction? The smaller the discharge line is the more you raise your discharge pressure. Discharge From Figure 2, 139.76 kW capacity in 42 mm OD suction line results in a 0.02 K m-1; from Figure 3, a 40 mm standard elbow has a equivalent length of Lf=1.2 m. The total equivalent length is Le=27 m. The temperature drop associated is 0.47 K, which is lower than 1 K. Normally the outlet is smaller (which is why you'll see 10"x8" centrifugal pumps but never 8"x10"). Why is the suction line bigger than the discharge line on a pump? Therefore, the 54 mm tube is recommended. In fact, most are closer to 10' feet of head. Refrigerant lines should be sized to provide a minimum pressure drop at full load, return oil from the evaporator to the compressor under minimum load conditions, and prevent oil draining from an active evaporator into an idle one. So, to avoid the pump damage from vacuum, RO will be sized accordingly. . The suction line should contain low-pressure superheated suction vapor. If the return line is not insulated, the refrigerant returning from evaporator to the compressor will absorb some heat, more heat than it had at the outlet of the evaporator. For the same amount of pressure drop (discharge vs. suction) the suction drop increases the compression ratio to a greater extent. Example: Suction line size = 8" or 10" Pump suction nozzle size = 6" Pump discharge nozzle size = 4" Something this and all other original posters (OP) need to understand is the hazards of vagueness and gross generalizations. But the availability of numerous products may confuse you about which one to buy. 2.8. The cookie is set by GDPR cookie consent to record the user consent for the cookies in the category "Functional". suction lines. They have different pressure and temperature and connect various A/C components. The discharge line is normally one size larger than the discharge nozzle. The larger pipe is known as the suction line, and includes insulation. Sloping of Suction Lines. Why is the suction pipe diameter greater than or equal to the discharge pipe diameter when design pumping system? Overall, one of the best replacement discharge lines available in the market. ASHRAE Handbook, Refrigeration, 2006. These are terms used by refrigeration and air . What is the difference between the suction line and discharge line? The use of premium quality materials helps it to prevent leakage and be highly durable. When buying a suction line, you need to be careful as wrong choices can lead to replacement sooner than later. Necessary cookies are absolutely essential for the website to function properly. The low price of this line hose is the best thing about it. number: 204909 Ph. The Pump Suction line is one (or more)sizes larger than the pump suction nozzle. Figure 1: Suction, Discharge, and Liquid Line Capacities in Kilowatts for R134a (Single- or High-Stage Applications). 3 What is the difference between suction and discharge? The line diameter is decided by pressure drop requirement, due to the NPSH requirement for centrifugal pump, that implies a smaller pressure drop limit for the pump suction line; but as the fluid at discharge line is with higher pressure, it allows a higher pressure drop in discharge line. Performance cookies are used to understand and analyze the key performance indexes of the website which helps in delivering a better user experience for the visitors. Registered office: Via Nino Bixio, 6 35131, Padova ITALY V.A.T. Suction From Figure 2, 191.84 kW capacity in 54 mm OD suction line results in a 0.04 K m-1. By joining you are opting in to receive e-mail. Don't use an infrared thermometer for this task. Over sizing lines increases the cost of the system. Suction pressure diameter is usually 1 size higher than discharge, because we need minimum resistance in the suction side to reduce the losses and increase the NPSHa. Overall, a good product at an affordable price. So, when you touch a suction line, it will be cold. Why pump discharge is smaller than suction? This valve line can be used for throttling. So the liquid entering the pump receives kinetic energy from the rotating impeller. No, the suction lines should not be hot. Hard Suction Hose Optimized For Drafting Operations. UAC always tests its products multiple times on various measures to ensure good quality. Overhead suction lines should slope downward to the pump to allow draining of the suction system through the pump. Can You Drive With a Busted Radiator Hose? Figure 2: Suction, Discharge, and Liquid Line Capacities in Kilowatts for R410A (Single- or High-Stage Applications). Close this window and log in. The mass flow is the same in the suction and discharge, in the suction you have low density, in the discharge you have higher density. Steel Suction-Line Filter Driers. Unilab SRL is a Heat Transfer Software Development Company with 30 years' of experience in the HVAC&R market. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. The suction line is usually the big line hose in the A/C refrigeration system. When you start the compressor for the very first time the oil is return to the compressor. Step 1 : Collect the P&ID and the pump data sheet. These hoses transfer refrigerant vapor to produce cold air that keeps the cabin cool. 3 How do I calculate pump suction pipe size? First, the compressor compresses the gas refrigerant that generates heat, and then the condenser eliminates the excess heat. This is, in part, accomplished by using as large a diameter line as you can for the given service/conditions. Suction The correction factor is 0.867, thus the 54 mm OD tube, which at 40 C has a capacity of 191.84 kW, now it has a capacity of: This capacity is higher that 130 kW, thus 54 mm can be selected, the temperature drop associated to the equivalent length of Le=23.0 m is 0.59 K(acceptable). So there are many factors, along with the type and make of pump, to determine whether the pump may be supplied with the same size suction and discharge. If suction or discharge pressure is varied enough, the flow rate could change because of the change in volumetric efficiency of the compressor's first stage. The next figures report two examples of the tables as proposed by ASHRAE Handbook (2006) for copper tubes; similar tables are proposed for steel lines. Is the discharge line high or low pressure? In most cases, a 3/8 liquid line is a safe bet, but just like the suction line, there is some wiggle room depending on the system and the specific application. Which is larger the suction line or the discharge line? Performance cookies are used to understand and analyze the key performance indexes of the website which helps in delivering a better user experience for the visitors. More information required - your question doesn't make much sense. Step 3 : Analyse the location and the space provided in the unit plot plan w.r.t. Determine the suction and discharge line sizes of a 130 kW R410A refrigerating system operating at 5 C suction and 40 C of condensing temperatures. Discharge transfer refrigerant from compressor to the condenser. Any form of turbulence reduces efficiency and increases wear and tear on the pump's bearings, seals and other components. Suction Head - The inlet pressure of a pump when above atmospheric pressure. Once that the equivalent lengthLe is known, the total temperature drop T can be easily estimated using the following equation: where (T/L)Table is the design temperature drop per unit of length, P0 is the cooling capacity and P0,Table is the cooling capacity listed in the table. This website uses cookies to improve your experience while you navigate through the website. The first number is typically the inlet, and the second is the outlet. Or do you want to know your A/C refrigeration system better? This kind of suction-line filter drier has a design that incorporates a large outside diameter shell, which results in lower pressure drop, shorter lay-in length, and a larger core, thus providing greater . Also, most pools will have well over 2 ft of dynamic suction head. Discharge Cavitation -This occurs when the pump is being operated at the far left hand side of the pump curve. The four basic line types in a hydraulic system are pump suction, return (Low pressure <100 PSI), medium pressure (500 to 2000 PSI), and high pressure (2100 to 5000 PSI). As outlined in Part I, the pressure drop in the suction line reduces the systems capacity because it forces the compressor to operate at a lower suction pressure to maintain a desired The suction line connects the evaporator to the compressor, the discharge line connects the compressor to the condenser, and the liquid line connects the condenser to the expansion device. It carries low-pressure and cold refrigerant to the compressor from the evaporator. This is done to make sure there is enough Net Positive Suction Head available to meet the requirements of the pump. Similarly, a suction line hose conveys refrigerant from the evaporator to the compressor. This extra heat will also be present in the compressed refrigerant going to the condenser, downstream of the compressor. The suction nozzle is one size larger than the discharge nozzle. In superheat, the temperature plays a vital role in the system's performance. Then, determine the lines' sizes if the condensation temperature becomes 50 C. Thank you for helping keep Eng-Tips Forums free from inappropriate posts.The Eng-Tips staff will check this out and take appropriate action. In any system, what goes out in the discharge, comes back in the suction. The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Analytics". If not possible, consider cascade bends, see Fig. Pump suctions can be particular, wanting well developed flow and pressures well in excess of the liquid's vapor pressure. You can use this knowledge to determine which hose you need to fix your A/C.if(typeof ez_ad_units != 'undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[250,250],'hosetips_com-box-4','ezslot_3',102,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-hosetips_com-box-4-0'); The suction line and discharge line are two types of hose found in automotive A/C systems. The next table illustrates an example of the sizing table for R134a, copper tube; the third column is devoted to the liquid lines, the other refers to suction and discharge lines. The high-pressure refrigerant travels to the expansion valve that regulates it to the evaporator. . Figure 3: Fitting Losses in Equivalent Metres of Pipe. suction and discharge line routing. Users have said the install process is quite simple. For a given refrigerant mass flow rate and a temperature drop per unit of length, discharge lines are smaller than suctionones because the vapour density is higher and the saturation temperature drop for a given pressure Triplex pumps: the cranks are at 120 and can be run at a maximum of 150 - 170 spm. (Sherlock Holmes - A Scandal in Bohemia. The suction and discharge lines are normally sized to have a total pressure drop no greater than the equivalent of about a 1 K change in saturation temperature. Below is the detailed explanation: Discharge and suction line hoses connect different components of an A/C system. Plugged or clogged filter, strainer or suction line. Similar to the pressure, the discharge line is high or hot, and the suction line has a cold temperature. Expanding on Art's input slightly, the criteria for sizing pump suction lines is always more conservative, in terms of lesser acceptable velocities and pressure drops, than those of pump discharge lines. The suction nozzle size is usually sized one size larger than the discharge nozzle. The cookie is set by the GDPR Cookie Consent plugin and is used to store whether or not user has consented to the use of cookies. 5 What happens if the suction line is not insulated? This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. Say, when equalization line valves are opened during pump changeover and if there is any condition occur which may cause vacuum to appear in pump casing due to equalizing line. The discharge line of your cars refrigeration system may deteriorate over time. DISCHARGE CAVITATION. 8 What is the difference between the suction line and discharge line? They generally feature a coarse mesh screen designed to capture and collect large particulates as the fluid flows into the pump. And the suction line hose links the evaporator outlet to the compressor inlet. How much is a #5 Newhouse bear trap worth? When installing refrigeration lines, make sure you have the correct size line based on the length of run. The common suction lines are the middle line at the bottom of the reversing valve. How a Refrigerator Suction Line Works Essentially, the compressor is a pump that draws in cold refrigerant gas stored in the evaporator and left over from the appliance's last cooling cycle. The velocities and pressure drop in pump suction and discharge lines are 3.25 ft/sec, 0.6 psi/100ft and 7.17 ft/sec, 6.6 psi/100ft respectively. It is most often called the liquid line. The results of having worn compressor rings create lower head pressure with high suction pressure. The suction line accumulator is a temporary reservoir for this mixture, designed to meter both the liquid refrigerant and oil back to the compressor at an acceptable rate. For example, 68 psi suction pressure on a R-22 system converts to 40F. In the future you should also use the Search (located at the top of the page) to see if the question has already been asked. The tables report the recommended nominal diameter for given refrigerant and application as a function of the system capacity. Sorry for the typo folks..the suction line is larger than the discharge..understood as they want to minimize losses in the suction which increases NPSHa..but what the reason behind having the discharge less then suction? A suction lift simply means the maximum level of the liquid to be pumped is physically below the centerline of the pump impeller.Most centrifugal pumps can operate with a suction lift if they are primed first.Primed means the suction line, pump casing and impeller are full of liquid and all of the air or non-condensable gases are removed. Hoses used in the assembly: Goodyear / Veyance / Contitech Galaxy. Here we have explained all the information about the discharge and suction line hose and their differences. Out of these, the cookies that are categorized as necessary are stored on your browser as they are essential for the working of basic functionalities of the website. The suction line is the low pressure side. Data estimated at 40 C of condensation . It carries refrigerant vapor from the evaporator back to the compressor. c). http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=239699, Low-Volume Rapid Injection Molding With 3D Printed Molds, Industry Perspective: Education and Metal 3D Printing. The discharge is always on the volute. 2. We use cookies on our website to give you the most relevant experience by remembering your preferences and repeat visits. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. But opting out of some of these cookies may affect your browsing experience. Though they have high pressure, discharge line hoses are smaller. Before the cold air cools the cabin, they go through the suction line. In-Line Gauges Sprinkler System Gauges Valves . is that suction is the principle of physics by which matter is drawn from one space into another because the pressure inside the second space is lower than the pressure in the first while discharge is (symptom) ( uncountable ) pus or exudate (other than blood) from a wound or orifice . The purpose of this document is to provide a clear communication regarding insulating the external copper refrigerant lines. Centrifugal pump is a kinetic device. Subtract the two numbers to get superheat. By clicking Accept All, you consent to the use of ALL the cookies. Your hand is in in the 90's and the liquid line should be close to the outdoor air temp, which is close to being in the 90's whenever the a/c is being used. The suction line consists of Lt=15 m of straight tube with 8 long radius elbows while the discharge line consists of 15 m with 10 standard elbows. Your email address will not be published. You will also notice the line sweating where there is no insulation. The Pump Suction line is one (or more)sizes larger than the pump suction nozzle. The line size should roughly agree with the velocity at the inlet and outlet of the pump at BEP conditions. I have measured data on several pools and the more well designed pools with lower HP pumps have lower suction head of around 5' and the older pools and higher pump HP have suction head closer to 10'. The suction pipe of a centrifugal pump is not necessarily a larger bore (diameter) than the discharge pipe. This is commonly referred to as the suction line, but it is also called the return line or vapor line. The suction line hose then conveys the refrigerant from the evaporator to the compressor. These cookies will be stored in your browser only with your consent. Pump is too far from the source, creating long suction line. Besides, suction lines are even more critical than discharge ones. 6 Is the discharge line high or low pressure? *Eng-Tips's functionality depends on members receiving e-mail. These cookies track visitors across websites and collect information to provide customized ads. A centrifugal pump working in this situation requires priming initially. Pumps, and especially centrifugal pumps, work most smoothly and efficiently when the fluid is delivered in a surge-free, smooth, laminar flow. The suction nozzle is one size larger than the discharge nozzle. Below is an inline pump, where the suction is normally lower (on the right in the picture) and a larger diameter (to achieve low s. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. +39 (0)49 8763311 Fax +39 (0)49 8750196, Unilab will be open during the holiday season. Exception - In the case of gas defrost, follow the special instructions on page MI-6 making and sizing a liquid line manifold at the case. The high side of the A/C refrigeration system is the discharge line. Both of them transfer refrigerant through the connections. What is the diameter of a suction pump pipe? Out of these, the cookies that are categorized as necessary are stored on your browser as they are essential for the working of basic functionalities of the website. Looking in the suction you should see the impeller suction blading. So it discharges the liquid in high rate. The suction nozzle is one size larger than the discharge nozzle. This is in order to ensure sufficient available Net Positive Suction Head (NPSHa) to meet the NPSH required (NPSHr) by the pump. The suction nozzle is one size larger than the discharge nozzle. Suction and discharge lines are more critical than liquid ones from a design and construction standpoint. This ebook covers tips for creating and managing workflows, security best practices and protection of intellectual property, Cloud vs. on-premise software solutions, CAD file management, compliance, and more. It does not store any personal data. Under-sizing fluid lines will result in high pressure loss and system overheating. By clicking Accept All, you consent to the use of ALL the cookies. The suction line connects the evaporator to the compressor, the discharge line connects the compressor to the condenser, and the liquid line connects the condenser to the expansion device. Necessary cookies are absolutely essential for the website to function properly. 5.47 The discharge piping is considered to be the piping between the compressor and the aftercooler, the aftercooler separator, and the air receiver. An isolation valve should be installed in the suction line at least two pipe diameters from the suction to permit closing of . This also helps produce an even flow to the pump and avoid cavitation. This is because the volume of the refrigerant gas that the suction line hose carries from the evaporator is much higher than when it enters the expansion valve. 5.42 At least 5 pipe diameters should be provided after bend. When checking a unitary air conditioning system without gauges, do it in the following steps (these are subject to change and adjustment based on historical benchmarks, abnormal conditions and manufacturer specs): 1. This makes liquid line, suction line, discharge line and indoor air measurements your primary indications of performance. Other uncategorized cookies are those that are being analyzed and have not been classified into a category as yet. No, the liquid (discharge) line is the high pressure side. In the case of ammonia the temperature drop per unit of length is usually taken as half of the previous values. For example, a 2-inch bypass would .
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